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A quick word on tone
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Author Topic: A quick word on tone  (Read 1174 times)
Matthew Haldeman-Time
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« on: February 17, 2009, 06:35:28 PM »

We all know that reading someone's tone on-line can be tricky.  In person, you can hear my tone and see my expression, so you know if I'm being sarcastic, if I'm laughing, or if I'm being outright mean.  On the Internet, you don't have vocal and facial and physical cues, so you're just left with the words on the screen.

Even though I'm a writer, so you'd imagine that I can convey my mood through words, I've been misunderstood more than once.  Most notably by someone who took me seriously and was very offended by a joke I made on one of my update lists.  I'd never dreamed that anyone would ever take that comment seriously, but, again, this is the Internet, and tone can be difficult to read.

Some of us are just on the board to hang out and have a fun conversation about fiction we all enjoy.  (Hi!  Thanks for hanging out!)  Some of us want to get into more serious discussions, questioning the angles and bringing up new points and picking apart the textual evidence.  (Welcome!  Great to have you here!)  And some of us get pretty vehement in pressing our points.  (Diamond will crusade against Hitari until the end of time.)

If we argue opposing viewpoints, if we butt heads, if we disagree on everything from Anosanim to Xio Voe, that's okay.  That's just us disagreeing about the fiction.  And sometimes we'll get wrapped up in the argument, and sometimes we'll feel disagreed with at every turn.

Different people have different tolerances for conflict, and different people have different boundaries.  I'll admit that, over the years, people have said things that have upset me.  I've been offended and I've been insulted and my feelings have been hurt.

If that happens to you, if you're involved in a discussion on the board and you think that someone's gone too far, please just let that person know.  9.9 out of 10 times, it was unintentional, and no harm was meant, and she'll apologize.  And 9.9 out of 10 times, no personal attack was intended.  (I'd recommend that private messages be sent in these cases, but that's at your discretion.)

In the cases where a personal attack was intended, if the conversation has progressed beyond academic discussion and into personal insults, please let me or one of the moderators know.

I want to emphasize again that while our discussions of the fiction may get heated, that's just because some people get wrapped up in the conversation, and some people just like to argue, and some people just post fast and don't realize how they come across.  Sometimes you'll have an interpretation of the story (Rini should marry T'rin!) that someone else doesn't agree with, and she'll write ten pages of posts detailing exactly why Rini and T'rin are doomed, and, yes, it's natural to be taken aback at that.  But please read it in good faith, and understand that she's arguing about the story and talking about the story, not about you.

When we talk about you, we do it in glowing terms, with lots of smileys, because we love you.   Love

-Matthew
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Matthew Haldeman-Time
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 06:51:28 PM »

Let me add:

This is a safe space.  We're here to have a good time.  No personal attacks or snide comments or outright rudeness will be tolerated.  Try to keep things polite, try to be considerate, and toss in an appropriate smiley face or two if you think you might be misinterpreted.

If a problem arises, I'd like to work things out and resolve the issue.  After a pattern of good behavior, a stray remark isn't like to get you evicted without warning.  But I do reserve the right to ban people who cross the line or mistreat other board members.

-Matthew
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Matthew Haldeman-Time
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 07:04:27 PM »

Apparently, I have more to say.

Each and every one of you is a beautiful and unique individual, and each and every one of you has a unique and distinct place in my heart.

However, we already have, I don't know, 40-some people registered in the first two weeks of this board, with more to come.  I keep track of y'all, but some people just hop on and hop off and are here for the discussion, and don't keep track of who's who.  Therefore, they may not be tracking names, or personalities, or commonly understood traits, and misunderstandings may arise from people just not keeping track, or crossing signals.  I know that Diamond can't stand Hitari, and if I poke at her one more time, she might explode.  You may not know that about Diamond, so you might say something that sets her off, and after the explosion, you'll be left staring at her wondering where in the world that came from.

If, in her fiery tantrum, Diamond says something that injures you personally or crosses the line, that's a problem.

But, it may just be a Hitari-rant that's in reply to you but not about you.  So please read it in good faith.

I'm probably harping on all of these points far more than I need to, but there was a recent skirmish with a few crossed signals, and I know that in that case, no ill intent or personal attacks were intended, but feelings were still hurt.  I'd just like to avoid problems in the future by agreeing to understand, now, that we're here to talk about the fiction, and occasionally to discuss other things, but not to go after each other.

Read in good faith.  Argue in good faith.

And, if someone crosses the line, if someone goes too far, we'll address it.

Man, this is rough.  I'm trying to strike a balance between "we're all friends, she didn't mean to hurt your feelings, honest, she's just really argumentative" and "if she calls you names I've got your back!"

Well, there you go.  That about sums it up.

Please reduce all of the above posts to:

"We're all friends, she didn't mean to hurt your feelings, honest, she's just really argumentative."

and

"If she calls you names, I've got your back!"

-Matthew
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LilacMajesty
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 07:43:13 PM »

:::waits for more:::
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Falconer
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 07:50:10 PM »

I'm sorry you've found yourself in such an awkward position, Matthew.  Pet Pet In light of your first post, I'll try to clarify a few things as well.

Ahem.

 Geek

I want to take this opportunity to say that none of my posts, comments or responses, past (and future), were (will ever be) meant as a personal comment.  Sad Head Shake

I like to analyze and discuss things; for me it’s fun and interesting, and it makes me appreciate the story even more. I see this board as a platform to exchange interpretations, impressions, feelings, ideas, crazy theories, predictions, fantasies etc.  with other enthusiastic readers. I welcome other people’s ideas, and other people’s responses to mine.  I love having my points challenged or supported: whatever it is, it increases my enjoyment and appreciation of the story and of the readers.  Rock Out!

I apologize if I’ve sometimes come across as forceful, or worse rude or arrogant. It certainly wasn’t intentional.


Group hug!! Group Love
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Daniel Pennac
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2009, 08:40:14 PM »

Quote
However, we already have, I don't know, 40-some people registered in the first two weeks of this board,
Cursing um, WTF? We have 56 members, get your facts straight, you blockhead! What the hell are you thinking! We don't- - ( Stare wait is this thing public?  Undecided )

Blush eh heh, that was an example of what not to do. Like stuff to not say to people about things.  Angel

Um, you know a lot of us tend to point out where we disagree more than we talk about where we agree, and that's not mean or whatever, that's just stuff.

No No No But personal attacks are not cool, man, because I could have told Matthew what a complete idiot statement that was without calling him a blockhead and - - wait Blank Look, um...

No one has yet, but don't be mean, bye! Peace

 - Diamond
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blondiechic0
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2009, 08:47:07 PM »

Quote
However, we already have, I don't know, 40-some people registered in the first two weeks of this board,
Cursing um, WTF? We have 56 members, get your facts straight, you blockhead! What the hell are you thinking! We don't- - ( Stare wait is this thing public?  Undecided )

*snickers*
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aka hockeygrl0

LilacMajesty
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 10:56:38 PM »

 Rolling on the Floor Laughing Clap  I think I just woke up the neighbors I laughed so hard.
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JaeFire
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 08:51:05 AM »

I'd like to throw in my two cents and say that I think that what Matthew said is a really important thing to remember.

Some people, like me, love to argue and analyze the text down to punctuation points, word choices, syntax, and any number of really dorky, nit-picky, anal-retentive things.  That's just how some of us analyze literature.

Please, please don't take our comments personally.

If someone sounds curt with you, it just might be a case of miscommunication due to the nature of words on a screen, without body language and the other helpful signals that help us discern tone. 

Or it could be that they just completely and utterly disagree with your opinion--but that doesn't mean that they're trying to put you down as a person.  They're not disagreeing with the value and validity of your existence.  That's just insane.  Ideas are being debated, not people's self-worth.

We're all here because we love ITL--not to attack anyone.  Not anyone as a person, and not anyone as an intelligent human being.

Your idea of the text might be profoundly disagreed with, however.  It might be debated for days and hotly, hotly contested.  Like the fire of a thousand suns.  Please be prepared for that.  You may want to gird your loins, your feelings, and all of those other soft, squishy bits--anything that's not your academic brain.

Like Matthew said, "some people just post fast and don't realize how they come across."  This happened to me personally, where I posted too quickly and didn't realize how I came across--and then I felt terrible when I hurt someone's feelings.  Just try not to jump to conclusions, or take someone's words the worst possible way--and if your feelings were hurt, please send a private message the first time around and ask that the post be taken down or at least rephrased to be more friendly.  I'm sure you'll be accommodated. Like Matthew said, 9.9 times out of 10, I'm sure they didn't mean it and, like I did, feel terrible about it.   

- Jae
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 10:13:37 AM by JaeFire » Logged

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Matthew Haldeman-Time
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2009, 03:32:39 AM »

Quote
Your idea of the text might be profoundly disagreed with, however.  It might be debated for days and hotly, hotly contested.  Like the fire of a thousand suns.

Bring it!

-Matthew  Boxing
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LilacMajesty
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2009, 10:32:30 AM »

You're gonna put somebody's eye out, Matthew.
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